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listen with the free c-span radio app. sunday night, on "q&a," the supreme court reporter talks about her latest book "the chief," a book about john roberts. >> however john roberts now, that anthony kennedy is gone, he's going to determine the law of the land. so the liberals want him to come over -- inch over a little bit, but the conservatives are trying to hold him back where he always was. meanwhile, you have this chief justice declaring there's no such thing as an obama judge, no such thing as a trump judge or bush judge. he wants to project a bench that's not political, when they all have their agendas of sort. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern

on c-span's "q&a." education secretary betsy devos testified before a house appropriations subcommittee this morning regarding president trump's 2020 budget request for her department. connecticut congresswoman rosa delaro chairs the committee on labor, health, and education. >> good morning. the subcommittee will come to order. good morning, madame secretary. let me just welcome you to the -- to the subcommittee for what is our second budget hearing of the year. and today, we are examining the president's proposed budget for 2020 for the department of education.

you've heard me say this before, so it's not new. i believe that this budget is cruel, and i believe that it is reckless. i believe it will hurt the middle class, works, low-income families that most need our help. in fact, the proposed budget cuts, nearly $9 billion from the department of education, including the proposed $2 billion pell grant decision. and meanwhile, it proposes a new $5 billion annual tax scheme, which is an effort to fund private school voucher programs. that would undermine our public schools and allow an unaccountability and that use of taxpayer's funds. with provisions like that, i really am left with a very serious question for you.

how can you support this budget? i mean that genuinely. you're the secretary of the department of education. how can you support and maybe even take pride or boast about taking 10% or more than 12% if you do count the pell rescission, away from teachers and away from students. for me, it is beyond the pale. you should know that education is a top priority for everyone on this subcommittee. and today is our third hearing on programs related to the department of education. first, we scrutinize the $1.7 billion the subcommittee provides for loan servicing. we heard examples of -- by misinforming them about their repayment options and the department's failures to hold servicers accountable. we heard from the office of the

inspector general who cited in their recent audit report about how federal student aid, fsa, was asleep at the wheel in its oversight of servicers, and even relied on the memories of its own employees for tracking recurring noncompliance with federal law. 61% of all monitoring reports showed evidence of servicer failure. fsa has said that it has or will implement all of the igs recommendations, and yet fsa has yet to fully implement past recommendations from the government accountability office. and while the next gen initiative has promised, the department needs to take into consideration the compliance of contractors upholding the law, which is not currently the case. in that regard, i find it alarming that within three months of your confirmation, you

withdrew the mitchell and king memos, which would have addressed many of the system's current failures. secondly, an oversight hearing on predatory for profit colleges. they enroll 9% of all students in post secondary education, but account for 34% of all student loan defaults. these schools target the most vulnerable and our veterans. we heard from a student veteran left with a worthless degree and $100,000 in debt after being lured into thinking that pell and the g.i. bill would cover his cost. meanwhile, the department is working to roll back critical protections for students and taxpayers. specifically, the gainful employment, and the department is working on efforts that could roll back even more. before we get into the specifics

of the department of education budget, let me say that the president's budget's guiding principle, one that bolsters military spending, while sharply cutting funding in education and training. while claiming that we simply cannot afford it. is an argument that i whole heartedly reject. and i'm not alone. earlier this year, more than 300 military leaders wrote to congress asking for balanced in defense and nondefense spending. they say nondischris naer programs play a variety of rolls in enhancing our national security by contributing to health, education and development of our youngest generation. they reached this conclusion because 71% of young americans cannot qualify for military service because they are, and i quote again, too poorly educated.

medically or fiz kphysically unr have a disqualifying record of crime or drug abuse. i do appreciate that the president's budget requests new funding for science, technology, engineering and math mematimath. that is a commitment that i share. while i am pleased that the president's budget request abandons a previous proposal to shift $500 million from neighborhood public schools where 90% of our children attend to private school. i'm disappointed that the administration is proposing a new $5 billion a year tax scheme. data we have strongly suggests that vouchers do not work. an institute of education

scientists, gold standard evaluation of washington, d.c., the only federally funded voucher program, found that vouchers negatively impacted student achievement. and i might add that you are also cutting our funding for ies by 15%. this is the entity that your own budget documents say "provides valuable insight into how public dollars could be better used to improve student outcomes." the three education budgets from this administration have proposed the largest cuts to education funding in four decades. that's since the department was created in 1979. madame secretary, i have to say, shame on you. this is your watch.

you are secretary of the department of education. in your testimony, you talk about freedom, but what is happening here is that you and the president are proposing to abandon middle class families, and those families who are in need. this is not freedom. yet i will note the administration is not shy about spending and using government, when it comes to benefiting corporations and the richest. such as the $1.5 trillion tax scram and crop insurance subsidies, which can go to the richest of the rich, since there are no eligibility. the administration only opposes spending when it promotes the common good or makes opportunity real for people. many of these cuts were rejected under a republican congress for two years. yet here they are again. you have eliminated 30 programs

totalling $7 billion and cut another $1 billion. eliminating the impact of big payments for federal properties, special olympics, after school grants that help people with disabilities find jobs, eliminating literacy programs that build a foundation for a lifetime of learning, and the main program, title two, that helps to attract high quality and diverse leaders, while directing scarce education resources to unproven, unaccountable, private entities through a new "teacher voucher proposal." eliminating a temporary fix for rejected borrowers who thought they qualified for public service loan forgiveness, and slashing other programs. on the mandatory side that's outside this jurjurisdiction, t budget proposes to eliminate the

public service loan program, worsening the student debt prices. in a rare move, in the administration's own department -- reauthorization bill last congress, because it too eliminated pslf stating "d.o.d. opposes this legislation because the pub sick service loan forgiveness program has been an important resense tool for the military to compete with the civilian sector. and even a boost -- it seems to make up for the proposed eliminate of $1.2 billion, student support and academic enrichment grant, which includes a set aside for school safety. the counselors and services in addition to providing a well rounded education by providing

exposure to music and to the arts. the new proposal does nothing to look at the role of guns in school shootings. just like the federal commission on school safety fails to do, as well. at this point, let me just say that i also continue to support -- i continue to oppose your indedefensible silence, which leaves the door open for states using federal dollars to arm teachers versus federal law. congress never contemplated this would be used for the purchase of firearms. congress denounced the presence of firearms in schools in the elementary and secondary education act. it promotes programs that foster "the creation and the maintenance of a school environment free of weapons." and the congress reiterated our

opposition to taxpayer funded guns in schools and the stop violence -- stop school violence act in 2018 in the omnibus. it prohibits programs from being used for the purchase of firearms or firearms training. i fought hard on this issue, and last year's funding bill, advocating we make clear that congress never contemplated that such flexibility would allow for the purchase of firearms. my proposal was simple, follow current law. but we could not reach consen tu cess. this year, we'll review charter skills with account to effectiveness and accountability. including findings that states mismanaged charter school closures and the department failed to provided adequate

guidance. we have appropriated more than $400 million last year alone. we need to conduct overnight. the trump administration would do well to take a page out of the oath that doctors take. their first principle, which is do no harm. and yet, this budget inflicts harm. that is why i raise again, i do not understand how you can support this budget and be the secretary of education. this budget underfunds education at every turn, from early childhood education, k-12 education, post secondary education, through workhorse -- workforce training. title one, idea, these are core programs, level funded. that is not sufficient. we have promised and we owe our

students and teachers more, and i'm not alone in the criticism here. others, national center for learning disabilities, national association of federally impacted schools. the school superintendent's association, counsel for education funding and others. i would hope that this would be a real concern to you, as well. i like forward to further zugsz of your budget request and the other policies under your jurisdiction. first, let me turn the not the gavel, no, i'm not going to do that. >> that's okay. >> not on my watch. but first, let me turn to my friend and colleague, the ranks member from oklahoma. >> i want to thank my friend, the chair, and if you ever want to rethink that offer, that's

okay by me. we would step up and cooperate. but good morning, madame secretary. i look forward to hearing your testimony today. a former educator myself, i understand how important it is for our children to have access to quality education. as the parent of a teacher who works with kids with special challenges, i understand how important the charge that we have given you is. without question, education is one 06 the most important bui building blocks for quality learning that impacts life long development and unlocks each individual's potential. i commend you for your efforts in this arena, as a selfless advocate of reform. i was pleased to see that your budget request continues to prioritize resources to certain populations of children, who need additional support. i appreciate the continued investment in these programs, such as children with special

needs and indian and rural education. and i was pleased to see your emphasis on charter schools, school safety and other initiates that support innovation, best practices and school choice. i continue to be a strong supporter of career and technical education. i'm proud that my home state of oklahoma is leading the way in innovative models for delivering cutting edge skills that can lead to rewarding careers for students who do not wish to pursue a four-year liberal arts degree. i thank you for your support of those programs, as well. madame secretary, your budget proposes to consolidate or change over two dozen programs. many of those proposals make sense in the context of a reauthorization or consolidation. but i do believe others are somewhat shortsighted. i'm particularly concerned about the proposal to move the successful trio program from a competitive grant model to a

formula grant to states. we know these institutions serve distinct populations with different needs and i'm not certain such a change makes sense. i look forward to hearing your discussion of it and of course your testimony. finally, i think that it may be time in our country especially we need more understanding of civics and our shared history. so i was disappointed as an historian, to see the line proposed for termination. i know that you were faced with a difficult challenge of making all the pieces fit into a tight budget. so i do understand the need for some program termination and consolidations. however, i caution members that we need to take a hard look at the impact of some of these cuts will have on our own local school districts and students and i'm sure we'll have a robust

conversation to that point. since both my friend the chairman and the chair and madame secretary, you talked about the budget deficit, i'm going to go off script here for a minute and talk about that, because i think this is -- we probably come from different perspectives and the numbers will drive us to similar conclusions. nod widely known or appreciated in congress, we know the budget has two big components. it's not a discretion nart component, and it's got a mandatory spending component. discretionary is about 30% of the budget. the mandatory is about 70%. this congress is actually, if you broke down that 30% into two components, more than half of it is the defense budget and overseas contingency operations. congress is spending less money on defense and less money on overseas military operations

than it was in fiscal year 2010 and this year in fiscal year 2019. so that suggests frankly i agree with the president's efforts to strengthen defense and we live in a very dangerous world. but we're not overspending in this area by any stretch of the imagination. i would also remind my colleagues the same thing is true in nondefense. we're actually spending less in all of these programs, everything from meals on wheels to head start to the education programs that you're in charge of, than we were in fiscal year 2010. when you take into inflation, that means we're spending less. so on the discretionary side, congress has done a pretty good job of holding spending flat and actually effectively reducing it as a result of inflation. so where's the deficit coming from? pretty easy, the other side of the budget. fiscal year 2010, we were spending roughly $1.9 trillion in mandatory programs. this year it will be close to

$2.6 trillion. so throw in interest on the national debt, you move to a little over $320 billion. so until we get serious about the nondiscretionary side of the budget, that's -- we're not ever going to have a balanced budget and we'll continue to see as the baby boomer generation retires, you know, a massive increase in spending on that side of the budget. it gives me no pleasure to see this, neither the current president or the last president addressed this. the last person that tried to do anything about it was president bush, who proposed social security reform in 2005, and it was shut down by congress, on both sides. we're going to have to revisit those questions, and i think that's important in the context of the programs we're discussing today. much of the pressure that you

face, and that your fellow cabinet secretaries face, is because neither congress nor the executive branch has been willing to look at the other side of the budget and do the things necessary over there to bring us towards balance. i know that today, we'll have a very robust discussion, and we'll come at it from different points of view, and that's okay. i always like to point out to my good friend, the chair, in the previous four years, we started at different points but voted for the final bill. in the last two years, president trump signed that bill. so i think we'll probably, you know, come at this from different points of view again. that's okay. that's what the legislative process is supposed to be about. but my goal will be, at the end of the day, to produce a product that my friends and i on both sides of the aisle can vote for. and that the president can sign with a great deal of pride. i suspect that will call for a

certain amount of compromise along the way. that's the way the appropriations process has always worked and i suspect that's the way it will work again. with that, madame chairman, i yield back my chair. but i want to thank the secretary for being here and thank you for holding the hearing. >> thank you very much. now i turn to further comments. >> and i too want to thank chairwoman deloro, ranking member cole for holding this hearing and i want to join them in welcoming you, secretary devos, before the subcommittee. we are not far into appropriations hearings season, but frankly, i am tired of hearing about the administration's so-called tough choices. secretary devos, your budget

request does not reflect the reality in classrooms across the country. and if enacted, would cause structural damage to communities across the nation. to communities across the nation. since you have taken over as education secretary, children continue to be at risk of gun violence in their classrooms. sexual assault continues to climb on college college campuses. student debt dictates almost every college graduates professional choices. yet, in your testimony, you criticize a republican controlled congress for increasing your agency's resources. you are criticizing your agency's resources. this budget relies on anecdotal

evidence, and false concepts that you call choice and freedom. you propose complete elimination of 21st century community learning centers which would leave more than 87,000 new york students without safe, high quality after school enrichment, and significant comments cuts to funding. even the helen keller national center, the deaf, blind and adults. i will go on, but i can't help but wonder, we are both parents, and i wonder if you visited these centers and you know what they are doing. i visit by the way the after school programs all the time, and to see those children getting the extra support frankly makes me feel great.

i would increase them even more than they are now. so i am really puzzled about that, among others. while gutting these investments, the administration's budget calls for a new tax credit to support private school vouchers, even though many of these schools are unequipped to accommodate students with disabilities and english language learners. not only do you ignore racial and socioeconomic disparities in our education system, you propose policies proven to increase the divide, by cutting minority science and engineering improvements by $1.5 million, and the childcare access means parent ends cool program and school program by 70 percent. your budget would decrease the

diversity of stem field and exclude parents with financial need from access to a higher education. a couple of words about that, maybe you noticed recently, i'm a graduate of the bronx high school of science and you notice there have been many articles about the lack of diversity at bronx science or stuyvesant high school in new york city. i would be interested in knowing if you have any solution to that. i think people deserve to have the opportunity, and i would look at after school programs or other concentrations so you can help these students, so you can really say, and when i visit all the schools, i say you have the opportunity to reach for the stars, but if we are not providing them with this kind of support, seems to me, we are really, frankly, going off on tangents, here, there. but not looking at the investments that

are going to help so many of these kids. you propose an increase of 105 million for school safety national activities with the hopes of implementing safety practices that are proven to make schools less safe. the department of education's budget request is just another example of this administration's disregard for facts and disregard disconnect from reality. with this budget request, i am receiving president trump's message loud and clear. fund the wall with money from our children's schools. i do hope your testimony and response to our questions will address these deep concerns. thank you. thank you very much.

the secretary has completed her testimony which we will get to in a moment. we will proceed to five-minute rounds for questions. i will recognize members in order of seniority at the time of gambling in the hearing and then i will call on members in order of their appearance. madam secretary, we are happy to place her full testimony into the record, if you would be kind enough to summarize her statement, i want to make sure that we leave enough time for everyone's question, so please begin when you are ready.>> members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify in the president's fiscal year 2020 budget. i thought it would be useful to begin by recalling congress's commitment when it created the u.s. department of education 40 years ago. then congress vowed that the

move would quote, not increase the authority of the federal government over education, or diminish the responsibility for education which is reserved to the states, and i will add, communities and parents. this budget reflects a commitment to that sentiment. it also recognizes who actually runs the government's budget. american taxpayers. so we propose congress spend their money wisely, efficiently, and with restraint. the president's fiscal year 2020 budget would reduce overall funding for department programs by $7.1 billion which is a 10 percent decrease from 2019's appropriated level. this reduction is similar to last year's request and the year before that as well. i acknowledge that you rejected those recommendations. i also acknowledge that it is easier to keep spending, to keep saying yes, and to keep saddling tomorrow's generations with today's growing debts. but as it has been said, the

government will run out of other people's money. over the past 40 years, federal taxpayer spending on education has increased about 180 percent , amounting to over $1.2 trillion cumulatively. and yet we are still 24th in reading, 25th in science and 40th in math when compared to the rest of the world. doing the same thing and more of it won't bring about new results. i propose a different approach, freedom. this budget focuses on freedom for teachers, freedom for parents, freedom for all students. a great education should not be determined by where you live or by who you know, and it should not be determined by family income. and education should not be an old-school industrial age one- size-fits-all approach. every student is unique, and everyone learns differently. every child should be free to

learn where and how it works for them, where and how it unlocks their potential. that is why the president's 2020 budget proposes a historic investment in american students, education freedom scholarships. our bolt proposal will offer a dollar for dollar federal income tax credit for adult voluntary contributions to nonprofit organizations that provide scholarships to school students, not school buildings. these students, their families, teachers, schools, states, can choose to participate in the program, or, they can elect not to participate. it is a choice. and since the proposal the last entirely on voluntary contributions to nonprofit organizations, it won't take a single dollar from local public school teachers or public- school students. indeed our budget maintains current levels of funding for title one and i dea. something else, education freedom scholarships are not only for students who want to

attend schools. in fact, some states may choose to design scholarships for public school options such as apprenticeships or transportation to a different public school. states have the opportunity to be really imaginative and to serve the unique needs of their students. we don't have to look far to see that edged tatian freedom works. education freedom works. thanks to a menu option and the dc scholarship opportunity program embraced by teachers, parents, and students alike. more than half of students in the district attend schools other than their assigned one and there is still significant unmet demand. we propose congress double the dc programs funding to $30 million to meet those students needs. this administration leaves students of all ages should be free to pursue multiple pathways to higher education

and successful careers. that is why this budget proposes to expand use of pell grants for quality short-term programs. it also invests in career technical education and streamlines student loan repayment. the latter is urgently necessary, because today federal student aid holds $1.5 trillion in outstanding loans. more than total auto debt and credit card debt, and 43 percent of those loans are either in default, more than 30 days delinquent, or are negatively amortized, and taxpayers are on the hook for at all. this budget consolidates numerous repayment plans and raises the cap on a borrowers monthly payment to 12.5 percent of discretionary income. this is one way the federal government can be a more responsible lender. policy should not entice students into greater debt, nor should they put taxpayer dollars at greater risk. education freedom is not just for parents and students. teachers need greater freedom as well. we seek to empower america's teachers and elevate their

profession or via this budget with the new total investment of $370 million. i regularly meet with a number of excellent teachers who tell me they would like to choose their own professional development and customize it for their needs, to that end, the budget requests an increase of $170 million to focus on development that is controlled by teachers, not dictated by the district office. these are teacher vouchers and they treat teachers as the professionals they are. teachers also tell me about the value of mentors or residency opportunities. so we are requesting $200 million to enable new teachers more opportunities to learn from the best. it is also essential that teachers and students be safe at school. in the wake of tragic acts of

school violence in our country, president trump asked me to lead a federal commission on school safety. to support the commission's recommendations, we request $200 million to help communities develop their own school emergency plans and to focus on counseling and helping behaviors for their students. in the end, budgets are about priorities. hours are students, parents, teachers, and taxpayers. if our country is to remain secure, strong, prosperous, and free. we need students of all ages who are prepared to pursue successful careers and lead meaningful lives. thank you for this opportunity to testify, i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much madame secretary. >> my view of these education programs, it baffles me that you found room for $60 million increase to the charter school program or csp, especially when you consider recent reports of waste and abuse in that program. just this morning, washington post published reports that up to $1 billion in csp funding

had been wasted on charter schools that never opened or precipitously closed due to mismanagement. in september the oig found that the department did not provide effective oversight of processes performed by the state that received csp funding when their charter schools close. the fundamental principle for guiding states limitation of charter schools is to provide charter schools increased levels of autonomy so they may enervate in exchange for increased flexibility. in other words, it sounds like you are saying this is not our job, can you explain how you think stopping known waste, fraud, and abuse in the charter school program is not the department's job. why it can't stop federal laws and promote innovation when it comes to chair to schools?

>> we are very aware of the issues this report raised and it actually covers practices that long predate this administration. the fact congress took action to address these concerns and it was prior to the reauthorization of tsca, we are very keen to ensure that the concerns raised are addressed and we are also looking to this body for more flexibility for charters to be able to authorize the schools that are working -- >> madame secretary, it would appear to me that based on this report and other reports that the charter schools have enormous flexibility, and there seems to be no one who was overseeing how that flexibility translates into the use of federal dollars. you are also now proposing this

increase of $60 million, were looking at $500 million for entities that they are just going their way. let's be flexible. let's let them do what they want. they don't open, they close, no one is concerned about any of the students. that is irresponsible in terms of your job with regard to oversight. as it has to do with federal taxpayer dollars, that is the charge of the subcommittee, to make sure that those monies are being monitored and that you are accountable and not asleep at the wheel for what is happening with charter schools in this country. you've spent a lot of time and money on this effort. let me also talk to you about k- 12 education office. children, families, they count on your support to deal with

the esa, i am disappointed to hear reports about your mismanagement of the office of elementary and secondary education. 2016, it would appear you merged oes he and the office of innovation and improvement. they had 328 employees, we are down to oes he having just 260 employees. nearly 21 percent staff reduction. there are a lot of press reports out there and i quote, described long waits to answer technical questions, harried staffers, lack of overall support, technical know-how including when it comes to protecting schools. do you see it is your responsibility to help states implement the ssa. what is your message to states complaining that the lights are off at your department of education. i might also add i believe there was a contract awarded to look at morale in the

department. >> chairman, let me just comment on your previous question. i would just say with regard to charter schools, what we need is more charter schools, and more options for children, not less. and states are proving time and again that there are wonderful options that are being developed for children of every learning type and interest and we need more of them, not less. and when you have experimentation, you are always going to have schools that don't make it, and that is exactly as what should happen. charter schools are great option for thousands and thousands of students in the demand for more of them remains a very high so we meet we need more of them not fewer. with regard to the department and our organization there.

we have undertaken an effort to organize around the ability to be cohesive and effective in the work that we do for all of k-12 schools, and bringing in innovation and ingenuity into elementary and secondary education needs to happen, no matter where the education is taking place. i am very, very proud of the work of the department and the office of elementary and secondary education and the implementation that every student succeeds act. we are doing a great job, we have approved -- >> madame secretary, let me just say that you are taking a look dollars to open charter schools, you are taking money away from our public schools which is where 90 percent of our children are. and, what you are doing is shortchanging them and i would just say, some of them, if you

take a look at the data and the information, we are looking at the transference to private entities, private corporate boards. they open, they close. some of them don't even open, and we are spending good money after that and in addition to that, you don't seem to think that there is a necessity to oversee it, to claim any accountability for it. that all is right with the world. it's not true, we are wasting money. >> my time is up. >> thank you madam chair. if we may, i actually want to pick up on that because i want to ask you little more about it. i am a big supporter of charter schools and we have been working with your office so if you would, why don't you report on some of the successes you've had in this area. >> thank you chairman or ranking member, thank you for the question to elaborate a

little bit more on the value of charter schools to students today. we have, we are seeing across the country, i think with the exception of four states, charter schools have been able to grow up in 46 out of the 50 states and for students, it has been a wonderful alternative. we know that there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of students who want to have an alternative to their assigned public school, and charter schools often provide that opportunity. i visited all types of schools, and it doesn't really matter how a school is organized, to me. what matters is whether the students going to that school find the right fit for themselves and are able to pursue their learning and education in a way that really draws the best out of them. we need to continue to build on that and that's why this budget

proposes an expansion and the commitment of funding to charter schools to continue to support high-quality options for students. every state has high accountability provisions, varying accountability for provisions for their charter schools and do a good job i think of overseeing them at that level. we also do at the department of education, but the most important point of accountability are the parents who have chosen to send their child to whatever that charter school is, and we are going to continue to see great results from students who are able to pursue their education in those settings. >> i appreciate your work in this regard. i, too, visit schools pretty frequently, public and charter. i've got great public schools and great charter schools and i think you are right about allowing parents to choose the best path for children to participate in that decision. one of the things i was very

pleased with in the budget was your proposals in career and technical education. i hear more from employers in my district about the need for folks with skills and frankly i meet so many children and young people that this is the way they want to go as opposed to traditional four-year college education. so two areas i'd ask you to elaborate on, the first is your $20 million competition proposal and how you see that incentivizing and building in two career or technical, and second, this idea of using pell grants for shorter-term credential programs, how would that work. that's actually something i've always been supportive of but never found a way to finance because i think the demand would be tremendous. and i'm interested both your proposals in those areas. >> thanks for those questions. this administration is a huge proponent of supporting alternative pathways to higher

education and career and technical education is a very important piece of that equation. in fact it is an expanding area i think. i think one of the major hurdles is for us perceptually and i say us speaking as a parent. parents often don't view career and technical opportunities as valid, because for decades we have been told only for your college and university is the path to success. we've got to get beyond that because today we have over 7 million jobs going unfilled that require education behind scott high school but not necessarily a four-year degree so to your question specifically about the $20 million investment in stem, in stem applications we know there are huge opportunities from a career perspective in the areas of math and science and particularly in computer science, so that also couples with a proposal for short-term pell. short-term pell would allow for

high quality certificate and certification programs to be accessed where today students receiving pell grants cannot access them and the question around funding for them, i think, i think there is a little bit of resumption going on with the math that this would be an additive program. i suspect there are a great many pell grant eligible students who would opt to take one of these short-term pell opportunities in lieu of perhaps a longer-term more traditional route. so i think we would see a trade- off for many of those, many of those options and we need to take that step, i would argue, because there are so many great opportunities for short-term. >> i'm out of time so we will

pursue this another time, but i would be very interested as you go forward, any information you have back on the specifics, are you going to limit it to certain skill sets or whatever. but again, i think it is a great idea and a great place to start. thank you, madam chair, i yield back.>> on this report, the u.s. government wasted up to $1 billion on charter schools and still fails to adequately monitor grants. i yield to the lady from new york, mrs. lowy.>> madam secretary, your agency recently conducted a report on 21st- century community learning centers that's concluded half of the students who participated in these after school activities improved their math and reading grades. more than 68 percent improved their homework and class participation, and three out of five in improved their classroom behavior. last year, much to my surprise,

you propose the elimination of these after school programs, congress under republican majority not only rejected the ministrations cuts last year but increased after school investments by $10 million. this year, i'm puzzled, you are trying to cut it again. completely ignoring the strong evidence that parents support this program and in fact want more of it. could you tell me why does your budget yet again prioritize cutting this very important program and very popular program while your own study proves that successful and congress has demonstrated its strong bipartisan support for it? >> thank you chairwoman for that question. actually, the data that we have shows very differently and the funds coming from the federal level do not really show

significant impact on the students that it is meant to serve. the dollars flowing out of the federal program are not getting to programs that are working really well on behalf of the students, and there is not great participation rates. in fact, data from 2017 suggests that only 25 percent of elementary school program participants improved in their reading, and only 19 percent of middle and high school students improved and made gains and math. the proposal in the budget is two, we had to make difficult difficult decisions in the budget in the proposal and remember they are just proposals to you, but in doing so, we have really focused in on the things that we know are really yielding results and are getting to the students that are most vulnerable and need it most, so our proposal to eliminate 21st-century learning funding doesn't speak to the

program itself as much as it does to priorities, and also to the fact that the funding that we have been required to make it through this 21st-century federal level programming does not show the results for the students. perhaps some of the state and local community level support does and there's lots of philanthropic support around after school programs, but the funding from the department of education has not shown to be as effective. >> well i'm not going to get into a debate with you now, i'm glad that you said this is just a proposal, because you could be sure that many of us who serve on this committee and visit these local programs understand how effective and how important they are, so i wish you would give some more thought to them and i wonder if you have visited many of them. i've been a supporter of these for a long time and they are really lifesaving for many of these kids in the communities.

another important, in fact it has been central in many of our schools. your budget proposes to rollback significant progress we have made in this subcommittee on a bipartisan basis to increase investments in childcare access means, parents and schools, it is called the c campus initiative. the only federal program that supports childcare access on campus for low income parents working towards a higher education. a year ago today, the president advisor ivanka trump tweeted out her support for this campus program. now i'm not saying that ivanka trump is an expert in this, but her father seems to respond favorably to her opinions. would you say that her tweet on this program signaled the

administration support for c campus? >> we again had to make many difficult decisions in presenting this budget and we have suggested the elimination or reduction of a number of programs, and we have continued to stay focused on the ones that are really serving the most vulnerable students. title ix, or title i funding has been held even. i dea funding held even, english language learner funding held even, and those are funds that can be used also for children that we are talking about. not in the same way, granted, but definitely flexibility and how these funds are used, and again, we have made choices in this budget and are presenting our proposals to you for consideration. >> i have two other questions

about this. maybe that's why you shouldn't be proposing a cut in your overall budget, because i wonder if you've seen these programs and seen how critical they are too many of our communities, and i wonder, has the department of education studied the impact of these cuts would have on the 5000 parents who would lose access to on-campus childcare? and i would like to see the data to predict how this elimination would impact degree completion. my time is up but i would hope you can respond to me. i've been to the schools, i have worked with these schools. i see the impact. i see the impact on the parents, and on their kids, and this is such a valuable program. i know we are going to be considerate and i would hope you would educate yourself about this program as well. >> thank you. >> thank you madam chair. secretary divorce, thank you

for being here with us. we've appreciated your overview and the work you are doing. a few things i wanted to just comment on. one is, you have done a great service today by clarifying that charter schools are public schools. in michigan law we call them public school academies. i was a former charter school administrator and i think one of the biggest misconceptions is that somehow charter schools are not public schools and i thank you for doing that today. it's something that i have seen tremendous things in michigan as part of detroit's comeback, some of the charter schools there that are giving parents and their families opportunities in an area where they are not being served, so i appreciate your advocacy. i'd i wonder if you would speak a bit more about some of the proposals you have on expanding

options for school choice for families? and also, if you would, explain to us who benefits from that. what is the type of student, who really benefits from it? >> thank you, congressman. i appreciate that question very much. the main proposal that this administration is advancing is called education freedom scholarships, and it would create a federal tax credit that capped at $5 billion annually, that states could elect to participate in, or not. if they did elect to participate. they would create programs or augment programs that they already have existing in their state, and would give access to families as they decide, so most programs today in states are means tested and most students that today are benefiting from school choice education freedom programs our students that are vulnerable,

that have been stuck in schools that are not working for them. their families cannot move somewhere else like so many others can. they cannot buy a home in the suburbs where a good school is, and so it gives these children opportunities that they have not had before, and the beauty with the education freedom scholarship proposal and initiative is contributions to it are voluntary. nobody is coercing anyone to give. nobody is coercing any state to participate and nobody is coercing any family to participate in the programs that the states create. what it does, what it will do is give a lot of children, hundreds of thousands of children across the country, the opportunity to find an education fit that is going to be right for them.>> one of the concerns that was raised earlier is school violence, threats to student safety,

student achievement. if you are a parent in an area where you don't have whether or not meeting the needs academically i would think this would be a big positive for them. >> it would indeed, in fact i would fight a program that florida recently enacted called the hope scholarship. and have acts of violence committed against them, they are able to find a school that will work for them. those states can elect to adopt something like this and florida could elect to augment the program that they have, but giving again, giving parents and students options to find the right educational fit to each child i think is an imperative.>> i wanted to also follow-up that your goal was

mentioning, some ideas around the pell grant and some of the short-term pell, one of the things i'm experiencing in my district is i meet with owners of businesses, manufacturers, consistently they are saying we could hire more people, we just need to have people with the right skills, we would love to have some kind of a certificate training program in my home area , there is a company, it's a chemical company that they have a fast start program with the community college where it is an intensive short-term program and these are very good paying jobs. is this kind of what you are looking at for the short-term pell? >> yes, indeed. i think it is a great opportunity and communities and regions for employers to work with educators and really come

up with proposals that are going to work with the employers needs and that educators will be able to come in alongside of them and help create the kind of curriculum that is going to be absolutely perfect for the situation that that particular community or that region needs and yes, this is exactly what a short-term pell proposal could help to address. >> thank you very much. thank you, madam chair. >> was woman, lee.? >> madam secretary, you remember steve bannon, right? steve bannon indicated the trump administration's goal with the deconstruct the administrative state at each cabinet official who comes to this committee to really reflect that agenda. your budget reflects what

exactly steve bannon said, privatizing public education, getting rid of the public sector. to ensure the quality public education that our young people deserve and this is outrageous. your cuts here specifically target students of color, it is unbelievable low income students and i just have to say, madam secretary, you have zeroed out special olympics once again. i still can't understand why you would go after disabled children in your budget. you have zeroed that out, it is appalling. i want to ask you a couple of things which again reflects exactly what i just said. two years ago, i wrote it into the language about school desegregation. detailing recommendations on how to address the adverse impacts of segregation including

title vi school monitors to ensure that every student has the opportunity for an equal education. madam secretary, this letter came, we wrote it june 7. we tried to reach you over and over again, we have never received a response. i wonder where this report is. could you let us know? >> i am aware of that request and report and i know it is near completion and i commit to you that we will get that to you as soon as feasible. >> this is almost two years we have been waiting. these kids deserve, and the school district deserves an answer from our secretary of education. we can't wait two years to get a school report on desegregation from you. the response has been awful in trying in terms of trying to get some sense of timing. let me ask you about the school

disciplinary practices that impact black and latino students. according to data released, black k-12 students and latino students are three times as likely to be suspended or expelled as their white peers. but now the federal commission on school safety which you chair, eliminated the school discipline guidance which ensures the students of color are not subject to harsher disciplinary practices than their white peers. the guidance provided valuable resources for districts, they provided continuous vigorous oversight to make sure that students civil rights are upheld. 75 students rights groups wrote to you in february expressing opposition. why in the world would you blame , and i don't understand what

the rationale was. on the civil rights protection christians of color, it doesn't make any sense why that was part of this rescission. can you ask lena?>> no child should be treated or disciplined differently based on his or her race or color or national origin. and if and when they are our office of civil rights will act swiftly. children need to be treated as individuals. >> but they are not being treated as individuals, that's why we have this order put in place. and you rescinded that. >> again, any student that is treated or disciplined differently because of his or her color or race -- >> madam secretary, your own department of education office of civil rights indicated that

students of color are suspended three times more than white students. we put into place some requirements that would begin to turn this around but you rescinded those requirements. >> no student should be treated or disciplined differently. >> but madam secretary, they are treated differently. they are treated differently. >> if it it if they are that it is discrimination. >> and why would you resend the order that would correct for this. >> the letter amounted to quotas. >> this doesn't involve quotas, this gave direction on how to correct this horrible problem we have throughout the country. you go through any communities of color where you have schools with minimal resources provide

and you will see what is taking place. you rescinded that. >> every community needs to be able to handle their plus classrooms and discipline in a way that works for him. >> madam secretary, thank god we had brown versus board of education. we needed the federal government to provide that oversight and civil rights protections. >> congresswoman herrera butler. >> thank you madam chair. thank you madam secretary for being here. you know i have some questions and i'm excited to hear your answers. i do appreciate your willingness to, and to share. when i feel like there's a

difference between asking a question and being tough and being somewhat, i mean if i was sitting there and i was asked about what my bosses daughter thought about a proposal i was working on, i would be a little bit annoyed. if i was being asked how could you possibly be the secretary of education by and there's a long list, i just feel like i appreciate your willingness to do the job even though you are being undermined as you sit there in many different instances. again, vigorous disagreement. i think chairman cole says he had some disagreements that i would share some disagreements with my friends on the other side of the aisle that is all in how you do it, so i appreciate your willingness very much. the first piece i wanted to ask about has to do with mental health. teachers in my area of southwest washington have shared with me that they see mental health, the crisis of

mental health impacting individual students, classrooms, and communities as a whole and this cuts across wealthy classrooms, urban districts, rural districts, poor and impoverished districts. we are seeing a critical need to provide mental and behavioral health support and i say we the community, i mean all of us. as in your role, does the department have any emphasis on supporting schools and providing this support? >> yes, so the school safety commission made a number of recommendations and among them that were specific to the department of education really had to do with improving the school climate social and emotional learning, mental health issues, and one of the proposals in our budget is a new

$100 million school safety grant program that can be used by states and communities to implement a mental health program that is appropriate for their school, for their community and we know that this is an issue that is not unique to any one type of community, and we know that the climate of the school is so, so important and having visited many schools in the past couple of years, you know when you enter the school if they are being intentional about creating a positive school climate and we think that this is one important way that we can help states really help their local communities meet specific needs specific to their communities. >> thank you. >> i imagine it is going to look differently, i think about some of my different schools

increasingly suburban, these solutions might look a little different. >> seclusion and restraint. i was just reading an article in my area where there are parents talking about having their six-year-old held down by the neck while the classroom is cleared and that was the school solution to dealing with some of the behavioral issues, and i know the department announced an initiative on this when it comes to providing care for children with these are disabilities, can you tell me about this? >> images begin by saying that every student needs to be able to go to school safe themselves and other students to be safe in their setting as well and we have initiated an effort to really help school communities know and understand the law with regard to seclusion and

restraint and then to help ensure they have the tools necessary that is in line with what the intent of it is. and we've also launched an investigation and this is a joint effort between our office for civil rights and our office of special education, and it is to go and look at some areas where the numbers that have been reported just seem a little bit out of line for some reason. and to really go and understand whether these are accurate reports and if not, to help them know and understand again what their obligations are. we think this is a really important initiative that we have undertaken without having some kind of a mandate being told to do so. >> i appreciate that and i yield back. thank you.>> thank you madam

chairman and committee chairman. thank you for being here. thank you so much secretary for being here today. i would like to get to three or four areas so if we can be concise i would really appreciate it. i do want to follow up on something ms. lee asked, when she asked about suspensions, you mentioned race religion and i notice you never mentioned sexual orientation or gender identity, you think it's okay for school to bias based on sexual orientation or gender identity? >> our office of civil rights has continued to be very religions in investigating any allegation of discrimination and we will continue to do so. >> so is a yes or is that i know? i'm trying to get a yes or no. >> we follow the law does she sent >> so personally you don't have a opinion? you are giving money to some charter schools that do discriminate and that report i

would like to follow up from our chairwoman's question where billion dollars has been wasted within schools going to charter schools. one out of every four have failed and i know when your testimony you thought we should have more charter schools but when you have a 25 percent failure rate that would be like saying of one of your car tires keeps going flat and rather than replacing it, you are going to add more tires to a car. i don't know if that makes a lot of sense but my question would be, what are you doing specifically to get that billion dollars back for taxpayers, and you have in this budget a $60 million increase, a 14 percent increase for this program when we have one out of every four failing? how can you address those two aspects? >> let me refer again to the fact that the report covered information does she >> true but i want to get a couple more subjects in does she >> i will go to the fact again that we need more charter schools, not fewer of them per >> so what are we doing to get money backs back for taxpayers? let's do that first >> we need traditional public

schools does she >> excuse me madam secretary, so what are we doing to get the money back for taxpayers the billion dollars a wasted? >> i'm not sure that that is the ultimate conclusion but we will certainly look into that she >> are we doing anything to get the money back? >> we will certainly look into that though she >> so were not doing anything to get the money back. >> so the second part of that is we have an increase yet we have a failure rate. go to another area i want to follow-up on what you mentioned about this cuts to special in the olympics. you have the kids are going to be affected by that cut madam secretary? >> mr. poe can, let me just say again, we had to make some difficult decisions with this budget does she >> this is the question of how many kids. it's 272,000 kids. i will answer for you, that's okay, no problem. it's 272 thousand kids that are affected. >> it is an awesome organization, one that is well

import supported by the philanthropic topic sector. >> i'm reclaiming my time if i could, there's a couple more parts to this. also we have cuts ago in the special education grants to states from 3 million to 2.2 million to 26 percent cut and then also in this budget you have a $7.5 million cut to the national technical institute to the blind, a $30 million cut to a university of a $500 million cut for printing books for blind students and you recently had a federal judge ruled against some areas around special education. i have two nephews with autism. what is it that we have a problem with with children who are in special education? why are we cutting all of these programs over and over within this budget? >> we have continued to retain the funding levels for i dea and held that level, >> sorry, i don't think i brought up ida, i believe ice brought up special olympics and special education grants to

states, the national technical institute for the grind blind, gullah tech university, so if you would address those print >> i will address the broader question.>> or if you could actually address the answer the question i asked. >> according to students with special needs we have continued to hold that funding level, that funding at a level amount and in the context of a budget proposal that is a 10 percent reduction per >> i will reclaim my time. you're not going to answer my question. let me know try one last one, maybe i will do better than charter schools if i get this one covered by you, you've got a cut to the department that is a 12 percent agency cut. but you have a 16 point increase in your executive salary appropriation. how can you justify that? >> the department funding includes a building modernization piece. >> i didn't ask about buildings. >> it is all part of that.

>> so you are okay with a 12 percent agency cut in light of a 15.6 percent increase in executive salary and by the way, $7 million security expense within the last year? >> we are also funding the next john initiative which requires a lot of investment now to save in the longer-term. same thing for the building modernization piece. we are in the process of shrinking down the footprint here from three buildings to two and all of that, the expenditures, they come up front, so that the savings can be realized in the longer-term. >> sorry i wasn't more clear in my question, thank you.>> congressman harris? >> thank you very much. good to see you again madam secretary. i've asked the secretaries when they come before here to explain

the presidents budget. now you have to work within the current statute, right? the current statute, we have to revert to the old caps, is that correct?>> yes. >> congress hasn't raised the caps, so actually, why anyone up here on this side of this wall here would think that the blame is not on us for not having given you the money to spend more, i mean the bottom line is congress is failing again. that's the bottom line. look, i trust states and localities on education, there's a basic philosophy that again, on the side of the wall, some of us are going to agree to disagree but some people think the federal government knows best how to educate people in somerset county. one of the two poorest counties in the state and i'd like to think my board of education and my local county and my state knows how to educate the students and someone up here, i hate to say it, you are part of the federal government, i don't think the federal government knows best how to educate the

student so i agree with you that turning over more things to the state is good. i also think the freedom is an american principle, i think freedom and choice are principles and i think that charter schools embody that principle to a large extent, so i think it was a great idea to highlight charter schools in your budget and especially the state facilities incentive grants because it always bothered me, i used to sit on the education committee in the state senate in maryland it used to bother me that we would talk about charter schools in which they would give you money for the education but were not going to give you any money for a facility. it's hard to educate without a facility but i guess that's the way the education establishment discourages charter schools. that's the way they do it and good for you to point that out. now you testified and you're going to have to explain, give me these numbers again. the reading, science, and math, where we stand in the nation. i'm sorry, in the world.

was it 24th and reading, 25th in science and 40th in math or did i get one of those numbers wrong? >> 24th and reading, 25th in science and 40th in. >> 40th in. this is after 40 years of federal involvement, and where did we stand in 1979 before the federal government went into help the states educate americans? if you could get back to me if you could look that up, though she >> it was much higher in the ranking and we've definitely continued to deteriorate. >> lets you step back to the big picture. in 1979, we were better. the federal government said, you know the words of ronald reagan, however many words it is, i'm here from the federal government i'm here to help, so the federal government came into help education and now we are much worse off. madam secretary, i want to thank you and thinking outside the box and how to reverse some of that and i do think some of the principles you have elucidated in the budget get to that. i do want to commend you

actually because i've gone and spoken to teachers and parents in my district who worried a lot about the impact policies of the previous ministration. worried a lot about that effect on school discipline and were very grateful that this administration took a new look at those policies. i would like you to expand a little bit, because i do think that one thing the federal government can do is expand the ability of states to be forward thinking and how they provide alternative education for parents and students who choose not to be in a conventional public school, and explain the new approach you are going to take to encourage states to have these foundations that fund alternative, alternatives for parents. >> thanks congressman for those comments and the question. this administration continues to support alternative pathways and acknowledges that more and more students are not traditional students and we are

going to have regular interface with education and learning throughout our adult lives, particularly children born today. when you think about the fact that a kindergartner today can look forward to entering a workforce were 85 percent of the jobs don't yet exist. so we have to be supporting, we have to be supporting lifelong learning in a way that is meaningful. that goes to some of the recommendations that we made around the pel, a short-term tell program. around expanding career and technical education opportunities. pre-apprenticeship opportunities, so there is a proposal in the budget to go to pre-apprenticeship programs. that will help prepare students to explore these alternative pathways and give them a chance to earn while they are learning. we have a long way to go to support all of these different alternatives in a meaningful way, when you compare it to how we have really waited the every

equation around traditional higher education and we are proposing some small steps in that direction. in thank you madam secretary, i yelled back. you have very nice disposition even though i don't agree with a lot. some of these budget cuts but thank you for being here. i will try to the findings we can agree about. let me start and i want to talk about sexual assault on college campuses. the department of justice and cdc has repeatedly documented that roughly 20-25% of women have been sexily assaulted and most commonly by men and i think per minute might be 16% rate or something smaller than that. women of college age are at the highest risk, so first of all i want to ask you, i am assuming

that you agree that title ix schools are required to respond to acts of sexual violence that impact student access to education. you agree with that? >> i would congresswoman but let me say that i have said before and i want to emphasize again that one act of sexual violence is one too many. one student that does not have due process is one too many. >> let me if you would just to save time, we have time we can talk about the perpetrators and so forth but i just, do you agree that in practice many schools are failing to protect victims and the whole perpetrator accountable? >> what i know is i have heard from students and i have heard from institutional representatives that the framework that they have had to operate under has not worked for too many students.

which is precisely why we are in the process of negotiated will make it. >> let me get this, let's find things we can agree on and then we can disagree. i understood i am assuming you would agree that people who are subjected to sexual assault experience terror, helplessness, profound humiliation, and that sexual assault are among the most harmful traumatic experiences. can we at least agree on that? which is certainly per co- >> that's great. i think we can both and all agreed that the response of the survivors community is very important for the recovery. we can agree with that? that's good. so i know, we are on a good path. i think we would also agree that authority figures in schools are in the position of great social authority.

and for helpful in recovery. we are doing well. so i want to assume for a moment that this is a classroom. and that we are meeting on a regular basis. all right, let's take a look around. you see the people here. let's assume, i will not pick any person out, that one of these people in here could be a man or a woman has been sexually assaulted by another one. in the room. is it a classroom. would you agree that a victim of sexual assault should not be required to sit in a classroom with a perpetrator day after day? can't we agree with that? >> i would agree with that but let me say, i appreciate --

>> let's keep going per co- >> i respect your desire to -- >> i will ask you the next question because we are doing well, come on, we are gray. we agree. here's my next question. if a, if a woman or a man is sexually assaulted at a fraternity house, should that by another classmate, should the victim be required to sit in a classroom with the perpetrator of the sexual assault? >> congresswoman i appreciate and respect your desire to continue down this path of questioning. but you know that we are in the middle of the rulemaking -- >> could you answer my question? >> it is inappropriate for me to continue to comment and answer the questions in a way

that you were posing per co- >> here's what i think, i think you agree with me that an assailant shouldn't be allowed to sit next to a victim and so i'm going, since i'm running out of time i guess i have to get to my final question which maybe we don't agree on, you have proposed the changes that if the student is sexually assaulted by a classmate and off came it off campus fret, the school is not going to be liable to investigate. i don't really understand that, if the front practice on the campus or across the street, it seems to me that the harm and the potential harm to the the time is the same and what that means is, for that victim, all that trauma and humiliation is the likelihood that the victim may not go to class, they drop out of school and it seems to me the university or the college is subjecting themselves to a violation of title ix. think about a. it.

your welcome. i yield back. >> thank you madam chair and thank you secretary devos for joining us today. what i would like to talk about is the borrower will the central perk up after losing your latest court battle, the implement the borrower's defense real, your department issued guidance that no school could force a student and, into mandatory arbitration over this boot dispute involving federal student loan. yet your guidance stresses that schools could continue to use mandatory arbitration as long as the dispute did not involve a federal student loan. is that correct? correct? these enrollment contracts for schools hide these mandatory arbitration clauses in fine print which is standard.

students have to enter these contracts in order to attend school. they don't have a choice. so i'm wondering madam secretary why you would continue to encourage schools to take away students rights as a condition of going to school. >> congresswoman, let me speak broadly on the question and the issue, we did not agree with the obama administration's approach to this. i am certainly very aware of the court decision and we are in the process of implementing that. will at the same time we continue to work on revising the rule so that it is one that we think is more fair to both students and taxpayers ultimately. our partial relief formula is meant to be respectful of taxpayers. there is no student that should be able to make a claim for borrower defense if they have

not proven been defrauded or if they are gainfully employed and so we are going to continue to work on this rule and implement as per the judges orders. >> so, i'm wondering if you could talk about what efforts your department is taking to ensure that schools not including arbitration clauses related to student loans as part of their enrollment. if you can, is your staff monitoring compliance? >> we are following the judges decision and implementing and at the same time continuing to work on revising the rules. that process continues to be ongoing. >> so i will drill down a little bit farther, have you asked the creditors to ensure that schools are in compliance? >> we are following the 2016 rule and at the same time continuing to work on revising the rule. >> okay.

okay. so you are rewriting the rule, is that correct? okay. so will your rewrite includes the existing ban of forced arbitration for federal student loan dispute? >> that is part of the consideration. it would be premature to actually comment on the role before it is actually released for comment per co- >> so what is your timeline on this? >> very soon, within the next few months. >> would you probably predict or answer but would you be able to commit to act in the best interest of students and uphold the ban? force arbitration? >> i commit to acting in the best interest of students and i do that every day in my job. will continue to commit to working on this rule so that it is one that is one we can be very supportive of and that is equally fair to students and taxpayers. >> i have one minute left.

then addressed the teacher shortage. so, from the state of illinois, we've got a severe teacher shortage issue. about 1000 positions that can't be filled. number one is in chicago which is outside my congressional district but the other two are in the cities of peoria and rockport which are in my congressional district forget this is an issue i had been doing roundtables on and have learned from teachers that they feel undervalued, they feel underpaid and overworked. your budget cuts are critical and the department of education program that me they need to bring improve retention. i know that you stated that you consider teacher hiring a local issue. but you've also's stated that you want to help facilitate the sharing of best practices to bring more teachers into schools. i am wondering if you can

elaborate on some of the best practices and share your next steps to help the states and districts with teacher shortages. i will leave it at that. >> i to have met with and talk to many teachers and i know that way too many of them do feel undervalued and underappreciated. that's why our budget has proposed to really give the teachers an opportunity to develop themselves and away that works for them. through teacher vouchers that they can use for their own professional development. one of the things that i've heard consistently is that they have been basically told what development to take, when and where whether it is relevant to their particular subject area or their particular development nate. so we think that this is a really good way to begin to get at that and to show the kind of honor and respect that they should have. and to elevate their profession. we also think that through the investment in mentorship and

residency opportunities that teachers will really great teachers will find a way to continue to develop their own career path. and not have to leave the classroom as too many of them have to do today. in order to continue to develop their own career path and they go into administration. and then there no longer the classroom. it doesn't need to be an either or, you can be a both and, they can continue to be in the classroom and develop a career path if they have the opportunity to teach as teachers, to teach the teachers. and the mentorship and residency program will allow that kind of opportunity to develop well. >> i will yield back. madam secretary thank you for being here. number one, i want to follow up on a question that congresswoman lee asked, specifically what is your

rationale for having rolled back the guidance on dealing with discrimination and civil rights issues in the schools, you mentioned something about closure so i read the rules it has nothing to do with clothing. what is your rationale for having taken that guidance and repealed it? >> congresswoman thank you for the question, again i will repeat again that i think we share the same goal that every student is treated as the individual that they are get back >> i want to reclaim my time because i want to understand one thing, what is the rationale for repealing a guidance with regard to how you would address, discrimination, disparate impact and all of those things in a school environment?

>> discrimination is wrong, and it will be pursued. >> we agree with that, tell me if you don't mind, why you felt it was okay to eliminate a guidance that was to help understand how the process, how is that helpful? >> actually the guidance we heard from many, many different quarters that the guidance was actually harming schools and individuals. >> i'm reclaiming my time. i want to ask you, every time you talk about every time you talked about your findings and your research and your whatever, i would love to see that research. i honest to god would love to see what you rely upon. as you are making and answering these questions. about what to do. let me tell you something i really support for a much in your budget. that is to expand access to

pell grants for apprenticeship programs, technical programs, i agree with you, the root is not always a four-year college education. i want to know that in advance of doing that, that is an integrated innovation in your part, what are you going to have to ensure that something like a trump university, with no academic relevance is not someone or not an organization that benefits from this new approach. >> congresswoman this proposal is one that we would like to work with congress to ensure the appropriate boundaries or guardrails are put into place get back and i think it is important. >> i think congress would want to know what your parameters were and what your accountability system is going to look like effect i want to ask you a question, i've got a lot of questions and i will probably get to them in a second round, because i have a question with regard to your

department decision not to any longer work with state officials over the redress of victims for- profit colleges get it this particular college was prompted by a letter that my attorney general in the state of new jersey sent to your department several months ago asking why suddenly they are not, you are not collaborating with them and sharing information with them so they could address the eligibility of students who went to schools like the corinthian school that failed them in any way shape or form and that whose loans could be forgiven. i would like to know why you haven't answered that letter yet, and i would like to know what are you doing about recapturing that money and protecting those students and informing them that they are eligible to have their loans that aside. >> congresswoman i certainly

want to make sure that we answer your inquiries and requests, thoroughly and promptly and if you could just submit a specific question for the record on what this particular matter is, we will be happy -- >> i have no problem sending it to you, i simply want you to know that the question that this is prompted by, the letter dated may 17 two you by our attorney general great wall and so i would appreciate an answer forget i will send you the letter again. i would appreciate an answer in a more timely fashion and we haven't gotten one. i guess i have to yield back now. i have a second round of questions per cup >>. congresswoman. >> welcome madam secretary.

before i ask my question i want to go back to the issue that was raised by congresswoman polk and begun regarding the waste of $1 billion on charter schools that never opened and opened in the enclosed. and just suggest that if your department were to do due diligence and not only in terms of oversight but in working to reclaim that million dollars, programs such as the special olympics, there would be no need or excuse for eliminating that. and other important programs for our children per co-. i want to talk about the pell grant. i agreed with your proposal to support career and technical education. but this i disagree on how you are going about a. as you know

the pell grant is the cornerstone of the national commitment to make higher education accessible and affordable. the purchasing power of the pell grants has significantly dropped over the years covering only about 30% of the cost of college today. your budget slashed pell grants and does not take into account rising inflation costs, and education in addition you propose to expand the pool of eligible applicants by opening pell grants to short-term programs. how do you hope to finance the additional demands on the program given that you provide no additional funds for the likely increase and pell grants? >> congresswoman thanks for the question. the proposal for short-term grants, congress may well decide to expand the funding and our proposal is to continue to hold pell level and in case, acknowledging that many students that might opt to take a short-term certification program may do so in lieu of a

more traditional longer-term program which in fact could probably be less costly to those students and to ultimately the pack. we are looking forward and happy to work with you to set up those kinds of parameters and would welcome the opportunity per co- >> i would suggest that you are not going to get enough students to switch from whatever profession they are seeking that need a four-year degree to take the shorter term so i am hoping that and i'm sure that as we will be in fact putting more money into the pell grant. >> one second.

>> this is my next question. for the third year in a row your budget proposal has called for complete elimination of the title for a program. stating that it is ineffective. this is the same program that your department repeatedly touted as offering local control and flexibility to districts and even go so far as to suggest using these program funds to improve social, emotional learning and school climate and student safety as recommended in the report from the federal commission on school safety. that you cochaired. so why are you ignoring your reports on recommendation and calling for the elimination of a program that for thousands of districts across the country is

the only flexible funding available for things like music, pe, stem and mental health services, counseling and violence prevention. >> thanks for that question. we have proposed this particular program elimination because it has been very thinly spread and has not been shown to be particularly effective at any particular thing. but with regard to school safety initiatives, the administration budget proposal broadly between the four departments that are touched by school safety issues is proposing $700 million specifically around rectum to support recommendations from the school safety commission report. the department of ed budget includes $200 million, $100 million of which would be for supporting mental health and social and emotional learning initiatives at the school level at the local level. and the balance of it for helping schools to do emergency

planning and assessment and take proactive steps to really prevent any acts of violence per co- >> so you actually disagree with your own department recommendation and the commission that you cochaired? >> no not at all in fact we think the proposal of the budget really helps get after some of the things that the commission's report recommended and helps support those initiatives. >> in your testimony you stated the following, and i quote, business may be better served by being in larger classes is by hiring fewer teachers a district or state can better compensate those who have demonstrated high quality and outstanding results. end of quote, this is contrary to decades of long-standing credible research by student- teacher at achievement ratio and actually recommended on

average student-teacher ratios to be 15:1. what evidence based research do you have to back your statement? >> will.must be in my written testimony and i would just comment to the fact that given, given education freedom initiatives, there are different kinds of environments in which students learn well work at some students can learn better with larger classes with more students to collaborate with, to learn with. >> what research are you using? >> there is plenty of research that will, undergird the fact that mandating a specific class- size doesn't provide doesn't yield resorts and i would be happy if you submit a question for the record i would be happy to do so. >> thank you madam chair and thank you madam secretary for being here today.

i want to go back to the school safety report. within one section of that school safety report your commission did recommend and we discussed earlier, resending the 2014 guidance entitled rethink school discipline guidance, is that correct? >> yes that's correct per co- >> you as secretary of education, you went ahead and rescinded that in january of 2019, is that correct? >> the timing might be about right for co- >> you did resend that in your official role? is that right? >> and your role, the guidance was well-meaning to address the fact that like boys are three times more likely to be suspended and black girls are six times as likely to be suspended. but the report goes on to say although well-meaning, you believe the commission believes , headed by you that the

guidance resulted in teachers in schools not really carrying out discipline because they were afraid of federal action, is that correct? >> that has been yes, that has been actually spoken to from a number of teachers per co- >> then you went on to layout in your report that although not specifically called for in the guidance that there was a concern that the commission had the that the guidance was creating quotas or certainly pressure to have quotas, meaning that you would look and have to discipline white students at the same rate you are disciplining black students however unfairly, is that what you mean by quotas? that you would actually look and discipline white students to make sure it was equal with the discipline of black students? >> congresswoman if what you're asking is about whether students can or should be treated differently --

>> that is what you wrote in your report that this was a concern that schools feel pressured to have discipline quotas. that was in your report per co- >> every student is an individual and -- >> that was quotas the concern is that correct? >> that has been contested by the discipline guidance per co- >> then you put it in your report that was a concert and you question the legal validity of the guidance on a serious misprint serious disparate impact. so here's with a questions come in. at the base of all of this, you wrote in your report the racial gap in suspension, you cite a study and say "the racial gap in suspensions was completely accounted for by a measure of prior problem behavior of the student, a finding never before reported in literature."

from your report, this research undermines the core proposition in disparate impact theory that statistical disparity necessarily demonstrate the classroom teachers and administrators are motivated by race when disciplining students. that's a quote from your report. so this is underlying research. here's what it shows. it says and i am quoting from the report, prior problem behavior accounts for the racial gap in school suspension that you cite in your school safety commission report. this report says, studies suggest that school discipline may reflect the problematic behaviors of black youth. problem behaviors that are imported into schools and into classroom. they go on to say difference in race suspension between racial

groups appear to be a function of differences in problem behavior. that emerge early in life, remained relatively stable over time, and then materialize in the classroom. this report that you cited and base as your theory, concludes by saying the association between schools school suspensions and blacks and whites reflects long-standing behavioral differences between youth. that's the research that you are citing in your report. in concluding that apparently that it is not racial discrimination in discipline but there are some characteristics of black children that from this report

start early in life, well before they get to the classroom. and in fact the author of the report has many other writings where he says it is the liberal fantasy that poverty and racism play into high rates of incarceration and criminal behavior. so my question for you is, when you talk about children shall be treated individually, what are you saying? are you saying here when you quote this research that the problem really is that black children are just more of a discipline problem? because that's the research you have quoted in your report. >> congresswoman, i said it before and i will state again, no student, no child should be treated or disciplined differently based on their skin color and race. or origin per co- >> your report agrees with that,

the very basis of being a black child you are more likely to be a discipline problem. that is what the study says. you quoted in your report and said that's why we now think it may not be motivated by race, black children are just plain old more disruptive in the classroom. how did you come to that conclusion? >> children should never ever be discriminated against. >> i hope you take these words to heart. >> you are citing of this research. but congressman graves. >> madam chair, madam secretary. good to see you. first let me thank you for your many years of commitment to children's education, your personal heart and spirit that you have shown is amazing. and i want to thank you for

that, i know it has been a driving commitment of your self and family for many years. and thank you for taking it to a public sector, not an easy place to go but you are willing to do that and didn't have to but you stepped up and thank you. to change directions a little bit, and i know you have plans for the agency and days ahead and were talking budgets and such but i know you briefly talk a little bit about i guess the educational freedom scholarship program. maybe you could go a little deeper that because i think that gets to the heart of what you are trying to do in this department and that is to make sure that children have access to education that touches them where they are in life as best as it can and take it to another place that betters them and their families in the future. can you tell us about the because i have familiarity in some ways with georgia has an educational tax credit that similar to that and how does that work and how will children benefit from this? >> thanks congressman for the

question. just to elaborate a little bit more on what an education freedom scholarship tax credit could mean, we are talking about a federal tax credit that states could elect to participate in or not so georgia could decide to participate in that federal pool of tax credit funds. and implement different program than what they already have, they could augment the one they already have, the tax credit scholarship program there. and really and creatively think about how to address the unique needs of students in georgia. and you know, thinking about some of the lines of questioning here today, and some of the students that i have met that have unaffected from being able to take, to have school choice and take advantage of opportunity like that, i think about denisha meriwether a young woman who was

who failed the third grade twice and she grew up in jacksonville florida and failed third grade twice, constantly got into fights at school, had a mom who was not able to really be a full mom for her. thankfully she had a godmother who came and found this tax credit scholarship, florida tax credit scholarship opportunity and denisha will tell you today she wasn't in that school, that faith-based school that her god mom found for her, not even two weeks and she was on a completely different trajectory. she became the first in her family to graduate high school. she has earned a college degree and a masters degree. and she is now working with us at the department of education to continue to talk about advancing these opportunities for kids. i think about so many students today who are stuck in school that just aren't working for them. and to give them the kind of freedom and opportunity that the education freedom

scholarship tax credit would allow is really inspiring to me and i would hope that those who , whose minds are close to that opportunity today would allow them to be open a little bit and just talk to a couple of the students who have been able to take, been able to make those choices and to find the right place for them. and every child should have those opportunities. >> thank you for your willingness to propose that i think that's a bold proposal and i know there's always criticism and objectives oftentimes a new concept but it does work. i don't know of an example where a student has gotten a worse education as result of making an opportunity such as this and in fact some cases and my wife is a schoolteacher you know, pre-k so i come from that background too. but unfortunately it is not the

fault of the student, in fact sometimes heather tether to a mailbox, they go to school where their mailbox is not based on what's best for them and their family and their spot or their needs. in essence so thank you for your willingness to do that. that as we go through, i know we have more questions that i would like to take it all the way to the full bactrim of college and how we can better prepare students understanding the true cost of college and what is the cost benefit of going to a school versus what the degree might deliver on an income basis and how can we better assist students in making college decisions based on facts and finances and and true cost so when we come back run i would like to talk about that per co- >> thank you and thank your wife for the great work she does. >> thank you, we are going to embark on a second round, the

time limit will be three minutes. for each of us okay. >> the department of education requires a letter of credit from an institution if it determines the serious risk to taxpayers forget this includes things like the risk of precipitous school closure. a couple of questions, if the department of education give back part of the art institute of pittsburgh a for-profit college, a letter of credit so they could continue to operate. $2 million, yes or no? >> congresswoman i am not familiar with that specific issue with that specific school or cut more broadly, yes, we do hold -- >> there was a $2 million give back to the school which you should check on given that the art institute of pittsburgh recently announced it is going

to close anyway. at the end of the march, march 31 it will] i need an answer to the question, why did the department do this and what happened to the money? you appear not to know anything but i would ask you to please check on it and get us an answer quickly. as to why it was done and where is the money? where is the money? >> thank you congresswoman kai will be happy -- >> there's testimony from the department, the inspector general for audit, this is about federal student aid management of student loan services. i also find it interesting that all of your commentary even some of the folks on the other side of the aisle and localities and are to have the jurisdiction to go after and to take on education and that's where it belongs except when it comes to protecting our kids in our borough was, then we don't want to look at the state and what they're doing and the loan services, we want federal law to preempt the. that being said, in particular

we print evidence of how the department failed to consider a services noncompliance with federal law and past performance. were it not for these ideas included in the memos which you rescinded following your first three months of secretary of education. >> congresswoman, we have as you know embarked on nextgen -- >> i know about nextgen, understand. i do, i know a lot about a. >> if you would allow me to talk about that a moment -- >> i want to know why, that's not my question, my question is why were the mitchell and king memos which were specifically laid out to address services noncompliance to federal law past performance, i asked the question, you rescinded the requirement as stated, servicing contractor should comply with federal and state law, taking any necessary steps to support oversight by federal

or state agencies regulators or law enforcement officials. did you rescinded? >> congresswoman, and me just say that we take, loan servicing and the requirements thereof -- >> we are continuing to enforce , my time is up, loan services, they are getting away with putting a grave risk on students. >> thank you madam chair. i only have a short time so i went to get two things on the record and then ask a question. on one i agree and i really want to thank you for this freedom scholarship initiative. i think that's a really important thing and i agree very much with the idea of injecting choice and freedom into the system and both students and frankly donors, the kind of flexibility you think would help the system and allow us to meet individual needs. i do want to go on record and you and i have had this discussion, i disagree on the elimination of guerra.

it produced 5 million college graduates for united states and these are young people that usually come not so young sometimes come from backgrounds they may not have been able to make it and i know in my state these are two really important programs, i have the discussion recently with the chancellor of higher education in a college president and they think this is really helped student population and we have a lot of which is a lot of first- generation. one thing i do want to ask about and was pretty excited about, you've got in this sort of works with you know present propose the apprenticeship program you have a pre- apprenticeship program. 60 million new dollars for that and can you tell me what the difference is and how you would define a pre-apprenticeship program versus an apprenticeship and how that would work out? >> so a pre-apprenticeship, first, thank you mr. cole, let me just comment on the trio thing. one moment because i know while we have proposed combining

europe and trio into one program and then a lesser amount for the trio program, but we also have proposed is consolidating that into a state formula grant so that states have the opportunity to get some of these funds to institutions and to individuals that are for needy around this and what we found is that 95% of the competitive grants go to the same places and the same programs time after time and they don't necessarily help the students that are most in the. so i'd like to talk with you more about that. >> we could have that dialogue another time per co- >> with regard to the pre- apprenticeship program, this proposal is to really start establishing apprenticeship programs that are outside of the registered more traditional sorts of apprenticeships that like building and trades apprenticeship program and this will allow us to allow employers

and educators to work together on apprenticeship tracks and opportunities that are going to have a more expansive appeal and more relevant relevance to the market today per co- >> again this has a lot of appeal to me, i want to get a little clarity as we go forward over what the definition would be so we don't end up basically funding the same thing twice per co- >> we would love to work with you on that to make sure that that's my >> my career tech people are very excited about these proposal. thank you. >> thank you again madam secretary. the question before i turn to my question. looking at these numbers again, the total cuts of dept. of education convey to fy19 is a $.8 billion, 12.5%, i am curious if you could say yes, no, whatever, do you have any input, to mr. mulvaney are

president trump ask you if you had those cuts should be made or should be rescinded and you have any input? >> congresswoman, yes this was an ongoing discussion but let me just correct you and your numbers, the proposed cuts are seven-point 1 billion and i think you are also rolling in the rescission around tell and that is not -- that is not a cut to any -- >> it is the pels surplus. >> the amount that continues to improve because not enough students are taking advantage of the apollo program so the account accrued and it is essentially an accounting adjustment to resend part of the per co- >> madam secretary i will not, it will not get into that because the hour is late. i wondered if you had any input knowing your commitment to education and your secretary of education and as mr. mulvaney

said this is yours and this is your. let's go vaughn >> this is a process that let me say that it is only at the federal government and washington that we judge the quality and effectiveness of something by the amount of money we spend on a. i think we have to get past that notion. quality and effectiveness does not equate directly to dollars spent per co- >> we could have a long discussion but in many of my schools, whether they get a pell grant or not, it does depend not just on the specific criteria but whether there's enough money in the bank to pay for their pell grant and pay for the scholarship to help them get through a job in education at the same time. i'm not going to get into that again, i we can continue that discussion. what i want to ask you in the past, and the past week alone, to parkland school shooting survivors, the father of the sandy hook victim died by suicide.

this came from the gun violence to schools and highlights the critical importance of mental health support in schools. while your budget request increase for school safety and activity proposes the elimination of the third year in the road of the $1.7 billion student support and academic enrichment grant program. in my judgment, interacting with educators, many programs like this are needed. and other important interventions that help keep community safe. can you just tell us how is the education department responding to this and has there been any outrage and has there been any support services and i have six seconds let. maybe i can answer it quickly per co- >> let me say that i was heartbroken to hear about the students at parkland and we are certainly have been continual contact with them around the

immediate grants that we can make in the wake of the tragedy and will certainly be again this time. but the proposed, the prebudget proposal does include funds and initiatives specifically to help schools elect to onboard social and emotional learning and mental health programs who really work that ensuring prevention of these sorts of -- >> my time is up, so $100 million spread out across 50 states. >> thank you madam chair and again, secretary devos thank you for answering questions and your patience with you know sometimes that even getting a chance to answer the question you are asked and i appreciate all you have done. i want to ask you on your federal work study proposal, last year's budget you proposed

reforms to the federal work study program and you've done that again this your. to better target the funding of low income recipients. i wonder if you could comment on why do we need, wisest federal work-study program need these reforms and how is it assist low income students better and any other reforms in your budget to ensure that funds are best targeted to students who need the funds most. >> thanks congressman, yes we believe the federal work-study program needs reform because the way the formula works today, very often those funds go to the most elite institutions not the ones that are really serving the students with the most need. so that issue is one. secondly, work-study as its carrido today often involves students working in the college bookstore or in the cafeteria, on campus programs. we have proposed to expand

those options to allow students to potentially work with in an internship type apprenticeship type of opportunity with employers for whom they might ultimately move into a career with. we think that having relevant work opportunities for students will be very meaningful in their learning career and so that's part of our proposal is will. >> i think that's a great idea. i think it needs the short term need as helping someone evaluate the future and what they might want to pursue long- term. what needs to happen to accomplish that, is that legislative, is it something you can do, how do we accomplish that? >> it is part of the budget proposal so congress can, you all can discuss and take that up in your budget deliberations to allow the funds designated for that to be able to be used for

those sorts of purposes per co- >> thank you and one last question, on the feature mentor, can you talk about that because one of the things you here periodically is that teachers come into the profession and many leave in the first three years, is that something that this will help with that? >> good question, thanks for asking that. we believe that this is really to track opportunity. for new young teachers just coming into the profession to have a highly qualified, seasoned professional to come alongside them and help them walk through their first few years in the profession is a great opportunity for new teachers. for those who are established and want to continue to really expand their reach, and their ability to reach students, this gives them a really important career track and opportunity to

do so and to continue to develop themselves or get and a career track for them self. the best of the best, teaching young new teachers is a great combination and we should i think really embrace this wholeheartedly because it's ultimately going to be back to the students per co- >> thank you and i yield back. >> congresswoman yuli per co- >> your budget proposal you require postsecondary institutions to use taxpayer funds and gets get in the game through student loan risksharing program. this program is not quite defined in the budget. starting with black colleges and universities and minorities serving institution to roll a large number of low income students. the point of the higher education act was to increase access to postsecondary education and i want to ensure that as we move forward we moved to increased access but come from the proposals we have

seen there's a strong argument that this sharing risksharing can incentivize institutions only enroll those students of a certain means in an effort to not have to share in the risk of a student is unable to pay back the loans. so again it could negatively harm minority institutions and minority students. how do you describe your proposal, in the sense that it would not create a perverse incentive to not enroll low income students. and then the second question i have, you may need to get back to me is the congressional black caucus, we are deeply concerned about communications and advertising dollars from each agency. so i would like to know and you have $1 million for communications program in your budget, how this money is contracted out and in terms of the vendors, the media that you use to provide communication

for the department of education in terms of minority women owned businesses and media so if you could get back to us with that. >> congresswoman yes if you could submit that for the record we would be happy to respond on that one, i can't respond on that right now. is for is your first question, the proposal around risksharing, it is a very broad proposal. not defined at all yet. we look for to working with you to develop a more concrete approach to ensuring that institutions have some kind of commitment to the students they are serving. i share your concern, we share your concern about ultimately impacting low income students and you know more high risk students, disproportionately. i think that again we would look for to working with you and talking to you about ensuring we don't, we don't ultimately come forward with a proposal that would negatively impact the students that most

need to have the kind of access we are talking about. and with regard to hbcu, i want to say that this administration has a very strong commitment to continuing to support hbcus and their important work in our proposal, our budget proposal continues to find all of the hbcu activity at levels as appropriated in 2019. and so again in the context of reduced budget overall, i think it does demonstrate the commitment to these institution per co- >> we will get to you in writing the suggestions on how you can approach the risksharing program. >> congresswoman. >> i'm sorry per co- >> adam secretary, how we spend our money and propose to spend it is an absolutely mentioned of our value. as i look at this you said watson coleman? okay.

>> a confusion here. congressman harris per co- >> thank you very much. madam secretary one of the things that i've noticed in the president's budget and one of the things was mentioned is the professional development and it's a different term the administration wants to take in professional development. i liken it to the position, we do can tuning medical education but is different for every person. every person is different stage in their training and different stage of experian's. and so one size fits if you approach doesn't work for that and i expect it doesn't work for professional development for teachers as well. if you review that eir program and what your proposal is for and how it would change the way we do it professional development. >> thanks congressman. this is a really important initiative i think that in our

goal to really honor and respect the teaching profession and teachers, we want to give a couple of different tools to teachers specifically. and give them more freedom to be the best they can be. and the proposal that we put forward as a teacher voucher where teachers could pursue their professional development, customize it for their needs and continue to themselves develop and you know perhaps share with their peers what they have learned but give them a lot more freedom and that development. i have talked with dozens, hundreds of teachers across the country and i hear repeatedly about you know with very few exceptions, the area of personally developing professionally developing is one that they deeply want to do and yet they have very few opportunities and very little latitude and how to do that. so we believe this is a really

important proposal that we hope you will consider very serious per co- >> why is it because you know, i have one of the studies that the national some for an education evaluation and regional system produce which was from the department of education. it looked at middle school mathematics and social development and i'm sure you are aware that show that you know we do these things for teachers and these things professional development but objectively, they just don't achieve the outcome. why is it you think it will recurrently doing and this is obviously important, mathematically important that we want to make sure teachers teach better, why don't these programs currently work? >> i think very often they are one-size-fits-all approach or one dictated by the district or the school building and there's very little latitude given to the teacher themselves. as to whether or not this is the particular program to which they are assigned to go and learn from is going to actually help them in their profession and in their particular

teaching style. i think being able to choose and customize themselves is going to really allow them to really grow professionally in a way they haven't been able to before per co- >> thank you very much. i would like to move the objection that the study for the record. can i go back. >> congresswoman watson coleman. >> thank you madam secretary. first of all want to say something about this rule that was rescinded. this was not supported by any of the civil rights community and it seemed to me that was a very viable entity to consider before you rolled that rollback. number two, you have, you had the major advocate for education in this country, admonished us in your statement for giving

you too much money. so i just find that absolutely incredible. number three, i looked at where your priorities are at the same time i looked at where your decreases and program eliminations are and it is very poignant to me that those programs that are particularly hurt address the minority population, the poorer population, the teachers in the schools that are struggling more, the trio program and programs that help young people get prepared for college and all of those programs address the children and the situations most in need and there is more than $7 billion cut in your budget from each one of those programs. and finally, i am going to give you the copy that i have of my

attorney general's letter so that you will have it in your possession now and be able to have your staff to have it respond in a more expeditious e manner. i guess really finally is that you have eliminated a $200 billion teacher development program and replaced it with a $2 million $2 billion program million? a $2 billion program you have eliminated replacing it with a $200 million program to do the things you said would give teachers an opportunity for development, personal development, innovative development etc.. it just doesn't fly, it just doesn't fly. it seems to me that a word you use a lot in your discussion here today was about freedom

and from my perspective of what i heard freedom is not equal in your mind. i yield. >> congressman graves. >> yes ma'am. madam secretary thank you again we are sort of wrapping up here. i have been here a little while this afternoon and this morning and i hear a little criticism about spending decisions you have made. i would just point out to the committee on your behalf that you are complying with law. the law says you can only spend so much money and until congress changes that number you have to make tough decisions and choices. i might refer to it as a little hypocritical criticism because i've yet to see a comparison budget i the other side presented that would counter and show their spending priorities as it complies to current law as well. until then i would suggest a restrain from some of the criticism until they can compare it appropriately.

back to talking about college students. i am a father of two college students and we have been going through that process of making decisions over the past year or two and it is difficult to compel a student who has a desire and desperation to go to a certain university with a certain degree in mind and program into try to and to try to convey to them your potential income when you come out may not match the expense of what you are going to incur because there is an expense. what can we do or what is your department doing to help educate very educated students who are going into very demanding career potential potential careers in the future that the expense of a quarter of $1 million loan to get a degree it may be difficult to pay that off in the future, how do we get that message to them and help them make informed decisions? maybe is a disclosure or it might be done in real estate, you understand you are signing

an agreement. you understand this might be the salary but this is the cost in here is your return on investment. >> thank you for that question and this is an area we have been very focused on making progress on behalf of both students that are the customers and taxpayers. the next initiative and federal student aid is taking a very antiquated complicated framework that has been patched to gather for the past couple of decades and bringing it into the 21st century with a structure that is going to be low class experience -- world- class experience for the customer. today you can complete your federal student aid form on your smartphone through the my student aid app. very soon we will be adding really important information to that through the college scorecard. we will have program level data by institution so students can look at their if they are

prospectively deciding between a number of institutions and a number of programs that they are thinking about pursuing. they will be able to find earnings data at the program level from that institution so it will give them a really important tool they can use when they decide to take on that student debt to determine if that program will ultimately pay and ultimately going to be worth the investment they are talking about making >> you anticipate this tool will indicate the interest expense, the payment structure if a loan were to be taken out and how long it would take? i feel like parents are having to do a lot of that work on their own and students get to their college career to enter into their next career and then they realize i have a lot of work to do but i had other dreams, i wanted to start a

family or buy a home and now i can't, i wish i had known four years ago. >> i think in general students need to have a lot more tools at their fingertips and they need to become much more financially literate as they make these decisions about their higher education pursuits we can and will be providing a lot of data and a lot of tools for them to know and understand what those applications are. we have proposed in this budget simplification of loan repayment, income driven repayment programs which would be capped at 12 1/2%. i think another area that is ripe for exploration in which mitch daniels has instituted a really important way of -- [ inaudible ] >> i apologize but ms. clark. >> thank you madam chair. madam secretary last year you came before us and in an answer

to my question about a proposed budget cut to the student support and academic enrichment grant. since you made that budget proposal in 2018 we had had the shooting in parkland and i know that you were just putting together this commission that has now made recommendations that mental health treatment be provided and that we hire more school counselors and social workers recognizing these services are most effective when they are school-based. you said when i asked you about it in light of what had transpired quote i support congresses re-addressing this and looking at this budget item because you said you supported quote ensuring schools have the resources that they need to

keep kids safe i understand your testimony today that the re-$.8 billion in cuts you have proposed is somehow squared with $100 million you put in your budget to go to mental health, could you explain your thinking and has what you said to me last year changed? >> thank you congresswoman for the question about the proposed elimination from the budget. i mentioned earlier the fact that this program has been very broad and thinly spread. it has not been designated specifically for school safety activities -- >> 134 million correct? >> which were again very broad. we believed the budget proposal as we submitted it today is one that really helps target

specific needs of states and local districts -- >> this week we have already mentioned the suicides of the parkland students which i share your heartbreak over that, but it puts such a glaring light on the need for mental health services. when i hear you saying is with less than half of what the title iv funds somehow you think that will do a better job because those funds are two broad is that what you're saying x >> let's also take into account? >> let's take into account there are other specific activities including mental health services and in the budgets of hhs and doj and dhs and together $700 million specifically for school safety activities and there is actually more in those departments -- >> i am hearing or testimony that yes reducing it by half

will do it, can you just answer for me something that was raised, is any of that funding of the 200 million be allowed to purchase guns? >> that is not the intention of the proposal. >> is that a no? is that a no? >> that is not the intention of the proposal. it is for mental health -- >> is that a no x >> that will be totally up to this body to decide conclusively one way or another. it is not the intention of our proposal. >> [ indiscernible - low volume ] >> i will close. i am prepared to close madam chair. >> madam secretary i want to thank you. i hope it is well known how many years of service you have spent and frankly to try to make sure folks without access got access to good quality

education long before you took this current job and you certainly didn't need this job. you serve without pay and you grapple at your own expense. i suspect you have in front of you in terms of being more enjoyable and you chose this and you chose it because you care about the young people and you care about educational opportunities. we may have occasional differences and i don't think anybody could doubt your commitment to the job and willingness to sacrifice time and for again if you want to call them the perks of the job. i think there are very few perks of the job that you have and i want to thank you for that. the mere fact that you stayed here longer than we normally go because you wanted to answer everyone's questions and concerns and present a case, i think that is important. i think on a note too well we've had differences there are

some places we can work on together and it seems there was universal support of this idea of short-term pell grants that you mentioned. there is strong support for investments in career and vocational education and obviously you share a lot of priorities. i think my friend pointed out you do have to live within a constrained budget. you are writing or budget to the law. we think at some point it is a layer of the agreement but we don't know that and you don't know that and it would be unwise for you to present a budget. even in that constrained budget you made sure there were no cuts title i no cuts. those are our vote most vulnerable students and i think with the dollars you have that you put those dollars where they reach people that are at the greatest risk of falling through the cracks in our educational system and i want to thank you for that. again thank you for your service and thank you for

giving us extra time here today to ask the tough questions. i look forward to continuing to work with you as we go forward. enqueue. >> thank you very much and thank you as well madam secretary form staying on and continuing to answer questions. i would like to say i see a sense of frustration on our side of the aisle and that is quite frankly frustration from often times the inability to get answers to questions as it was demonstrated here today. i started out and i don't pull any punches. this budget in my view is cruel, i think it is reckless and it is a 12% cut. it hurts middle-class families and working families. it hurts low income families and it is of concern to me. again as i laid this out i would hope it is of concern to

you. why on your watch as a secretary of education do you want to be complicit in shutting off public education opportunities? that is the way i see this and my colleague talked about criticisms that have to do with a budget, no we all work and are used to working within a budget framework but it is where you place your resources, what are your values? what are your priorities? that is what defines a budget and that is what of the concerns of all of us. i just want to clarify a couple of things. with regard to charters being public, it is hard to compare charters to public education as we know it because far too often what we see are charters siphoning away dollars from public schools.

they are operated privately and they do lack transparency and we should we expect that transparency from our public institutions. we apparently don't with regard to charters and i want to say to you this morning or this afternoon, find the billion dollars. find that billion dollars that was there. my colleague who is now gone and you had an exchange with regard to international comparisons. other countries blow us out of the water with investments in early childhood and wraparound services which we know pay off in serious dividends. we have one of the lowest rates enrollment rates in early childhood education. let me just say the hhs budget proposes to eliminate preschool development grants. we have level funded [ indiscernible - low volume ]. we take on most 15-year-old in

our school system. other countries don't do that. may take the highest achievers so you have to take that into consideration. the national assessment of education of progress is showing large gains and we should be proud of it for children of color over the past two decades. we have made and we continue to denigrate our public education system which leads me to the view that the decision is to privatize it. i'm sorry you didn't answer the questions on management of the agency but in regard to short- term pell there are some pieces around that. what you failed to do is to talk about defining high- quality. you need to have guardrails so we don't wind up in a pell grant program open to fraud, waste and abuse we need to have

programs that look at whether or not they are a good return on our investment for students and for the federal government. with regard to next-generation you did resend the requirements can take the necessary steps to prevent oversight by federal or state agencies, regulators or law enforcement officials. me rescinded the requirement around strengthening transparency to expand the publication of aggregate data on student loan and service performances. that would have required the department of education public service or level data on default. none of these rescinded provisions are currently part of the departments next jen effort. -- generation effort. you said and you discussed that these are just proposals. i am relieved.

i am relieved they are because the damage your budget would have inflicted on children and on families. i look forward to working with my colleagues across the aisle to reject [ indiscernible - low volume ] [ inaudible ] to improve the lives of american families. we have strived to do that over the last several years on this committee. we will be reviewing what had been proposed and you can be assured and i hope that we are going to reject much of what is here as we have in the past because the center of the department of education is the 90% of our kids in public education. you need to be focused like a laser on their opportunities and their future and yes test

whether or not it is good and be prepared to say, say no when it is not working. thank you i will draw this hearing to a close.

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